Z-Man vs Kietech

I've been wanting to post something about this but wasn't sure where...then I realized I should just start a new thread in here.

I'd love for some of the die hard bass guys (@Mike B. I'm looking at you...) to school me on soft plastics a bit. I've heard that Kietech's are more popular, especially in Ned rigging, but that they're less durable than Z-Man...that they're basically good for one or two fish, and then they're shredded. Whereas Z-Man stuff...TRDs or whatever.....will last a lot longer, but don't have quite as good action underwater as the Kietech's.....

Any opinions one way or another on the subject?

 

For myself, I have preferences of brand for each bait body type.

Example: for jigging Walleye, I pretty much exclusively use Berkley Power Minnows, and in one color mainly.

Same goes for all the popular Bass body styles of soft baits. For a skinny dipper type body style, I like a few brands, but Keitech would be a favorite. X-Zone Swammers are great as are Berkley Havoc Grass Pigs. For Ned rigging, I like buoyancy. That's where Z-Man comes in. In a stick worm, I like brand name Senkos. They're the heaviest (most salt). A Senko should waggle on the way down. Some brands don't do that, they'll just drop like a twig.

Basically, I make selections on things like--do I want it buoyant, or heavy? Soft or a touch more rigid? And if I want scent/flavor, always Berkley Powerbait

In my opinion, durability is only a bonus, but if a more fragile bait gets bit more, I'll gladly open another pack because it's getting tore up from bites. I've got so much plastic to use up it's kinda satisfying to go through a bunch

Each brand of soft plastic has a sort of 'signature' bait to each angler. But some specific soft baits of certain brands become very popular with almost every tournament guy or seasoned angler.

It takes lots of experimenting with time on the water and lots of shopping to figure it out on your own, that's one of the reasons I suggest tournament angling to a lot of people, it really fast tracks that process. Most tourney guys will share. LOTW Sports is an excellent resource for this kind of info.

If you're ever unsure of a brand, you can use this general rule if it's made outside N. America (goes for any tackle, not just soft baits)-- made in China: garbage, made in Japan: high end

 

Good stuff....good to know. I would never have considered Berkley stuff... Definitely have a shopping trip planned next week at LOTW HQ. Thank you sir...much appreciated!

 

Berkley stuff sometimes gets overlooked around the Wpg area, simply because local shops only stock a handful of body types, but if you click on the Pure Fishing link in my signature and go to Berkley under "our brands" and search soft baits, chances are you'll be browsing for a long time. There's a LOT of Bass plastic in there and a ton of Largemouth oriented Powerbait that most folks in the area had no clue existed. One of my new faves is a bearded Grass Pig. Swimbait with a Powerbait skirt on the front. Slow fall, more resistance...works really well as a replacement on a spinnerbait/buzzbait.

Just a heads up-- some tourney guys call Senkos "cheater sticks" ......that might give you a clue to how well they work. So, if you don't fish stick worms for Bass.....you prob should. I've got a small tote that I couldn't jam one more pack of stick worms into, of at least 5 different brands. Some bags of specific brands are literally 10 years old with maybe one or two worms missing from the pack, while other bags of specific brands don't last a season before I restock cuz I went through 4 bags of that brand and that color..... like I said, it takes lots of shopping and time on the water before you settle into a confidence bait for specific situations/presentations on specific water bodies, at specific times.

When you're starting out, I'd suggest when shopping at a place like LOTW Sports-- pay attention to the EMPTY rack. That's what you wanna buy.

It's rare that the bargain bin has THE proven fish catching bait in it....it's stuff that doesn't repeat sell. The empty racks are the repeat sellers...repeat sellers cuz the demographic that buys and uses tackle (guys that fish a lot) knows that one works. It's the same thing when go onto the Ambassadors website to make my orders throughout the year. Every Canadian Berkley Pro/Ambassador orders off the same site I do, so I pay attention to the items that say- "out of stock"....and I put those in my cart...trouble is I'm not Bob Izumi so I'm way at the back of the bus haha. I've had stuff on back order for going on a year. #mikebissmallpotatoes So I give up and order the goofy color of that bait that Bob and the like doesn't want

When tackle shop owners get their Rapala order in and stock shelves, I've got like 2 weeks after that to buy my XRD-8's in a very specific color, for the year. You got the bait, y'ain't gettin the color, but it's easy to figure out--look for the empty rack...cuz I'm far from the only one that knows that that one is da shit!

Some of the winningest tournament anglers, have bought their stuff online, from Tackle Warehouse and other sites, for two reasons- 1) they can/could get the hard-to-find (past tense as LOTW Sports caters to that demographic) baits. 2) no one knew what they were buying/using to win.

I'll save you a bit of money--there's a certain type of plastic, mass produced in China available in a couple brands......I'll refrain from bashing. They have memory. So, if it's tail is curled in the bag/packaging, that's how it's gonna stay....and that's how it'll look to a fish- unnatural. You can put em really hot water and straighten them...but who wants to piss around with that? I'd rather buy the stuff that each and every bait is perfectly shaped and straight, regardless of how it sat in the bag. I won't name the brand, but it's a red bag, and ryhmes with *Boom*...form your own opinion, but I won't buy any more of it. Look at the bait, and watch for the exact same bait, branded with another tackle "manufacturer". There's a huge tackle plant in China. If I wanted to start a tackle co. I look through a catalog from China, pick bait shapes, hard and soft, pick colors, pick hooks....put my name on it-- "Mike B's Chinese knockoff garbage Tackle Company" ....voila, I am a tackle company and I mark it up and sell it......beware, there's a new tackle company locally that has done this....rods, reels and swimbaits....not saying it's garbage....just know what you're buying is all. There's a bait supplier that did the same thing with Musky baits....same thing. Some guys like em...I thought they were shit. They were a replica of a Yo-Zuri.

 

Like I have said before Mike you should be doing seminars! I admit I have little confidence in plastics, however This past weekend I picked up some ZMAN finesse worms, I put one on my wife’s line behind a Mack’s smile blade and I ran crawlers behind a smile blade, at the end of our short 4 hour day I caught 11 eyes she caught 9 but also missed a few. My hands were dirty hers were clean. That ZMAN caught 9 fish and still looked new, really has me thinking.

 

Zman stuff has proven to be a durable, quality product over the last couple years that I’ve used them. I’m impressed with their plastics.

@Mike B. - I’ve chucked a few of the plastics that rhyme with “boom pukes” for the reason you stated above. I saw some vids online of a guy boiling and straightening them out. Ain’t nobody got time for that...

 

I'm a recent zman convert. Last side by side brand compare I did was on TRD plastics and I bought a bag of Jackall Yammyfish and a bag of Zman TRD. It was very noticable how much more use I got out of the zman. I've never fished a Keitech but it's one of the common nouns in bass fishing so there must be a reason.

Good posts Mike and great point about the bargain bins and empty racks. There's a specific lure I always look for at any tackleshop I enter and 9/10 times it's empty.

 

But how often does it happen that the favorite "hot bait" just wasn't working on that day? Now, given that some things work better on some days than others, how often do you actually throw "the whole tackle box" at them? In the last few years I've been trying to switch up with the not so favored baits once I find fish to see if they actually can produce. I bet I only reliably use 5% of the tackle I've bought over the years....still a lot of tackle mind you.

 

Good point.

I actually forced myself to fish uncomfortably on the last two outings because I knew the conditions were prime for what I was doing and I knew my old approach worked. I have struggled with this more with musky fishing on days when I'm seeing a lack of fish.... but is there really a worse time to try something new than when it's slow??? The best test is when you know there's a bite happening but I find it incredibly difficult to go away from something that you have confidence to fish under prime conditions.

I did try all my tricks and a couple new ones in hunt of largemouth but we only stumbled into one over two days in a spot I never would have expected a fish to come off of. I attribute that to my lack of knowledge but all of my old tricks and spots just weren't holding the fish yet. I told myself those days it's probably a temperature thing but it's more likely that I have lots more to learn before I'm even close to anything resembling proficiency.

 

In my experience, "hot bait" is only relative to: #1 timing, namely water temp. and #2--where

Some "hot baits" are actually hot baits, that work on almost all waters with a similar forage base, but it's rare that the hot bait is hot right around the entire calendar year.

Hot baits are typically seasonal (water temp). Similar to general consensus when talking live bait and Walleyes. There's a time when the leeches arent out swimming cuz the water is too cold, a time when crawlers is the best bait and a time for minnows...all relative to where you are as far as which to use, but water temp trumps everything.

Common mistake for anglers young in the sport is not making note of water temp when one particular bait or bait type is hot. A lot of the time, newer anglers will be on a lake and consider only using the bait that "smacked em last time", but ignore the or water temp it worked at, on that waterbody.

Mother Nature works by her own clock. She doesn't care what date the calendar says. Certain trees bud at fairly consistent air temps with a fairly specific number days of sunlight at that air temp poplar fluff flies Smallies go nuts, cuz it coincides with water temp....same thing under water...leeches come out at certain water temps and amount of light in a day, crayfish molt, bugs hatch, ...each creature has it's day according to photo period and water temp and the two are tied together, and also tied together with what goes on above the surface tension. Pay attention to water temp, what baits are working (start with hard or soft, tight wiggle on crankbait or wide wobble) and also what plants are blooming/dieing at what water temp.....it may sound complicated but nature gives her cues as to when to do what in fishing, on your drive to work in the morning.

A lot of my bait selection is based on one thing: 'are they looking up, or are they looking down?' rather than trying to match the hatch, I try to put the bait where they're looking. Ex- catch a Smallie on Woods in mid-late Summer with roughed up lips and cuts n scratches on their head, you know they're turning rocks over to get at molting Rusty crayfish....throw a small tube or drag a creature....even Walleye anglers towing a spinner will get big Smallies, simply cuz that's where they're looking for food, not necessarily bucause the spinner and leech resembles what they're really after.....it's food, where they're looking for food. How come nobody throws topwater when the water temp is 48, when the Smallies are totally willing to come right up to the surface to hit a jerkbait...? Cuz the fish aren't looking to feed at the surface....it's just not right, noting is supposed to be on the surface yet.

Sunday, I saw the Poplar fluff flying and I knew we were gonna smash the Smallies on jerkbaits. Set your watch to it. It's amazing how it holds true every year since I've started fishing at 17. Poplar fluff flies and the water temp is almost bang on 48 degrees on a certain waterbody I fish. The start of the pre-spawn smackdown where they're grouped tight and active on points leading into spawning/bedding areas. Poplar fluff- check. Jerkbaits, On points. Clockwork.

Al Lindner is amazing in his confidence and his quotes-- *Al looks at water temp on lake he's never fished* --- "50 degrees, oh yeah, they're up, they're up for sure, no question."

Gotaf7, I appreciate the compliments, but like my buddy says- "Mike, you're way funnier and cooler on the internet than in person hahah" ...the bastard is right y'know...hehe. It's easier to bullshit on the internet

And I honestly don't feel qualified to do seminars, especially on the same billboard as guys like Kez, Samsal or Gussy. There's fishermen on here, that are quiet, that are 10X the angler I am. ....sooo, kinda seems goofy for me to get on stage and try to preach to the choir....and nobody around Winnipeg wants to talk about anything but Walleye or Cats anyhow

 

Good stuff in here, gang...... I know there's a "time and place for everything", but is there a preference in how to rig Senko's? I've got some dark-green-and-pink (watermelon) that I've been wanting to rig up, and not sure if wacky style (in the middle) is the way to go, or maybe with a shroom head on top.....

 

My wife and kids bought me two days fishing with Gussy this June, it was quite an experience. We fished for two days pretty much exclusively with 2.8" Keitech and 2.75" Strike King swim baits on 1/6oz ZMan ned rig jigs or Hula sticks with an inch cutoff ned rig style. The Kietech have great action but don't last very long one fish or a snag and they are sliding down the jig head, the Strike King ones last a bit longer. The Zman Hula stick is now coming out as a TRD Hula in 3". The Zman TRD stuff is very durable but difficult to get really straight on a jig, at least for me it's just too stretchy. Too rocky on LOTW to dead stick the Ned rig back to the boat so I tend to hop it or throw it just past big boulders etc, most often bass grab in on slack line on the decent. My wife hs caught at least 200 bass and walleye in 4-10' of water since June 5-6, all of them with the little swim bait. I actually used the Zman 1/6 oz jig to catch this walleye in 20' of water last weekend.

 

Wow I have a lot to learn about bait jargon. Yikes !!!!
Well done.

 

go check out the new LOTW HQ.....they'll educate ya!

 

LOTW sports is a very good store, the staff are very knowledgeable, particularly about bass fishing. They don't really sell the cheap stuff though so I tend to think they are selling superior products at appropriate prices.

 

I read about different cranks, jigs, spinners and it’s mind boggling. I’m try to catch up but it’s always almost impossible. I love to learn to learn new stuff, I gots lots of lovin to do. Lol

 

Gord, just focus on one method/bait at a time - perfect that and move on - all part of the learning curve...

 

Yup!!! Your never gonna stay on top of the changes in the angling world, it’s nearly impossible!!!

I remember everyone talking about Ned rigs and this super awesome new technique, finally google it, man I been doing that forever, like since fort Whyte shore fishing days lol... so it’s not always “new breakthrough techniques” but perhaps refinements on techniques you already knew...

 

For me cranks are something that I’m trying to even take out and try. So this weekend I’m gonna try them

 

Are you talking about trolling cranks for Walleye, Gord?

If so, don't over complicate it would be my suggestion. Get good quality, known-to-produce cranks (Berkley Flicker Shads/Minnows; Rapala Tail Dancers; Storm Wiggle Warts; Shad Raps, Reef Runners, etc), when buying an assortment, go by depth ranges on dive curves. Get 3 in this depth, in diff colors, 3 in this range in diff colors and so on......then dial it in. Honestly, a line counter reel for long lining, a leadcore setup and so on is great, but you can honestly get by, by using this simple method--- it ain't catchin' til it's bangin' bottom. Go by feel of action on the lip....or just run at 2mph-2.5mph

Honestly, with leadcore, I seldom ever put on anything but a Flicker Shad or Flicker Minnow. Super confident with those two baits. Wit lead, I can get them down to where Walleyes live on just about any water around here. ...and those baits are around $10, as opposed to $20 to other brands.

A good percentage of my biggest Walleyes have come to the boat attached to a crank bait.

If I was to only have one Walleye long line rod--- line counter with leadcore. I use that the most. Even on the deepest diving banana baits, the ability to get it to bottom with less line out is beneficial--why?> easier to extrapolate where the bait is, in relation to where you want it to run. Most common mistake in longlining is, imo, guys will run the boat where the fish are, rather than concentrate on running your crank where the fish are.

Gord, you've been a spotter at Lundmania-- use that technique to surgically pick at the structure in lake situations/slack water. I've been farting around with that on Woods and the structures of Lk Wpg and it's outproducing longlining, on the real structure-rich spots of Lk Wpg (and don't let anybody tell you there's no structure on Lake Winnipeg.) On the flats, longlining is great, but with the "Pinawa Smash n' Crank" I can get the bait right to the fish I just marked. I can crawl the bait up and down individual rocks...with longlining, the bait is more apt to contact it, then bounce up and possibly out of strike zone....unless they're aggressive, which, in that case, the strike zone is bigger.

But remember, certain baits, on certain water, at certain temps is the key to consistently dialing in a good bite, year over year. That goes for hard and soft baits for different species. ...takes time, but that's the goal I go for-- so I can eventually dial it in tight so I can start very confident with certain baits on certain water at certain timeframes. My boat holds lots of tackle, but I leave over half of it at home now, where I used to bring it all, just in case.